All right.

by Miles , CIVITATES AMERICAE, Thursday, September 03, 2015, 02:04 (3309 days ago) @ jgt

I figured the lively debate was finished but, even though you're one of the handful in the country who have a problem with this, here we go.

So why do I bother?

It's because when I previously posted that the lessons from history are being forgotten, I neglected to add that the probable reason is that they're not being taught.

That's one of the faults of our education system.

People today are generally ignorant because ignorant people are easier to control.

So:

You are correct in one aspect. One's person 'rights' ends where it intersects another person's 'rights'.
So how does another person owning a gun, or anything else, intersect your rights until they perform some action?

Answer: It doesn't. You just don't like it.

Simply because you don't like it isn't reason enough. Lots of people don't like anyone (other than government) to possess a gun. And these same people don't like some of the rest of the rights we use, and cherish so highly. You're in the same boat paddling the same direction whether you realize it or not.

When you make a blanket statement that a group of people have "no rights" you fall into a trap of the collectivist's and totalitarian's making.

The rest of your arguments and reasons fall by the wayside until that particular point is dealt with. Nothing else you say, or point out, matters in the slightest once you went there.

Here's the lesson.

Not all that long ago, the political party in control of a country's government decided that a group of people had "no rights". No right to property. No right to freedom. Nothing. They had an agenda; Total Control, and they got it.

The head of the government used a supposed personal animosity to gain political power over the people. The country was in financial and civil trouble similar as we are today and he used his personal charisma to mesmerize the people, blaming and marginalizing the group for the country's problems.

The people sucked it right up without a second thought.

It also helped when the national media saw a source of personal profit and decided to throw in with the government as it's propaganda outlet.

If it was that easy to do it to one group, and it was, it's easy to do it to another.
For if today you say some group has "no rights", some other group one day may say you have "no rights" as well.

You see, there's people here in the U.S., TODAY, who look at US (the pro-gun, pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro-civil rights people) and want to do that to us.

We call them out in the public domain on their ideas and their rhetoric and their actions and say "You're wrong and here's why.".

But when you use the same type of argumentation used at US, towards someone else, you have no recourse when they point their fingers at you and shout 'hypocrite'.

What some people don't realize is that they're being fed an agenda.

I'll end with some quotes, and they're recent, not from the founders.

Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. That psychic discomfort is the price we pay for basic civic peace. It's worth it. It's a pragmatic principle. Defend everyone else's rights, because if you don't there is no one to defend yours. -- MaxedOutMama

The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. -- Ayn Rand (emphasis mine for both)