Rossi .357 Carbine question

by AaronB, Monday, December 05, 2011, 11:18 (4686 days ago)

Got a good afternoon in at the range yesterday, sighting in the Rossi Puma '92 copy in .38/.357 that I'd got for my son some months ago.

The rifle had been shooting high, to the tune of a foot high at 50 yards even with the rear sight at its lowest setting. In order to remedy this I had obtained a taller front sight. This did not fix the problem, so yesterday afternoon I went to the range with a file set and a big box of ammo and commenced to dialing it in.

The ammo I was using was a load similar to what I expect my son to use hunting deer, which was the Reminton 125-grain jacketed HPs in .357 Mag. I filed on the back sight to bring the top of the sight down, and used a needle file to keep the groove proportionate, until it was shooting perhaps three inches high at 50 yards.

This sounds worse than it is. It's predicated on a six-o'clock hold that put the center of the target one-half of the diameter of the front bead above the edge of the front bead. So if you are looking through the sights, imagine another front bead on top of the one that's there, and the point of impact is at the center of that imaginary circle. With this arrangement I could hit a target about the size of a playing card at 50 yards with perfect consistency. This isn't quite the limit of what my eyes will do with open sights, but it's not too far from it.

From elsewhere on the web I found that this load is probably delivering about 2000 fps and 1150 lb-ft of energy at the muzzle.

I don't anticipate that the carbine will ever be used to take shots longer than that at game. In fact, I sighted in at 50 yards specifically because in the conditions in which we hunt, that's a fairly typical shot.

Question: Based on these ballistics, where should I expect point of impact to be at 100 yards? We ran out of day before I could set up a 100-yard target and try it.

-AaronB

Rossi .357 Carbine question

by Catoosa, Monday, December 05, 2011, 11:36 (4685 days ago) @ AaronB

I had the same problem some years ago with a .22 rifle. I took the rear sight off and used a pointed burr in a Dremel tool to cut the notch out deeper and make it round with the top open, sort of like a 3/4 aperture. Centering the bead in the opening put the POI right where I wanted and was very quick.

50yd -0- yields 2.58" low @ 100

by Hoot @, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Monday, December 05, 2011, 12:03 (4685 days ago) @ AaronB

From here => http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

Using 125gr SWC/HP BC of .122.

2" high at 50yds equals a 125yd zero. 2.4" high at 70yds

by RangerBob, Monday, December 05, 2011, 12:16 (4685 days ago) @ Hoot

q

2" high at 50yds equals a 125yd zero. 2.4" high at 70yds

by AaronB, Monday, December 05, 2011, 12:35 (4685 days ago) @ RangerBob

Looks to me like I ought to be about done with messing with it, then.

I will probably deepen the slot a little, but that's it I think.

-AaronB

Ran the numbers again with the "Point Blank" software

by RangerBob, Tuesday, December 06, 2011, 06:47 (4685 days ago) @ AaronB

2" high at 50yds

2.48" high at 80yds

2.15" high at 100yds

Dead on at 135yds

Almost 3" low at 160yds (1271fps at this range . . . about like a 9mm +P at the muzzle)

Dropping like a rock after that (10.5" low at 200yds)

Rossi .357 Carbine question

by WIL TERRY, Monday, December 05, 2011, 14:23 (4685 days ago) @ AaronB

THE velocity should be WELL above the figures you note.

ALSO...of all the 357MAG loads and bullet weights available you have made the second worst choice of bullet weights for deer hunting; the worst would be the 110GR 357MAG loads.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....will the 125GR kill a deer....yep, but so can a 22R or a 22SHORT for that matter.
WHY not stack things more in the boys favor ??

1:30 twist . . . recoil for an 11 year old.

by RangerBob, Monday, December 05, 2011, 14:26 (4685 days ago) @ WIL TERRY

1

"The velocity should be WELL above the figures you note."

by AaronB, Monday, December 05, 2011, 14:43 (4685 days ago) @ WIL TERRY

Well, I took the velocity and energy figures from the source I cited at the link. I don't have a chrono myself, or I would have given you my observed data.

What velocity do you think that load delivers out of a Rossi carbine? I thought 2,000 fps was already pretty hot for a pistol cartridge.

-AaronB

"The velocity should be WELL above the figures you note."

by WIL TERRY, CAN EASILY TOP 2200fps..., Monday, December 05, 2011, 15:11 (4685 days ago) @ AaronB

NP.

I concur...

by Hobie ⌂ @, Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, Monday, December 05, 2011, 21:14 (4685 days ago) @ WIL TERRY

In my Marlin 1894C, the 125 gr. ammo is generally 2000+ fps. HOWEVER, those bullets at that velocity open VERY quickly. I know or know of several users of the .357 Mag carbines and they like, in this order, the 158 gr. Hornady XTP-FP, the Hornady 180 gr. XTP, the Remington 180 gr. SJHP (these last two made for the .357 Maximum from a pistol, ie the same velocity) and the 158 gr. Speer Gold Dot. I've loaded the XTP and SJHP. Then, also, I know one hunter who uses 180 gr. cast bullets (I forget WHICH design) and does very well on whitetail sized creatures.

FWIW, the Rossi 1892s in .357 Mag have long needed a higher front sight.

--
Sincerely,

Hobie

Multiple other issues are in play here.

by AaronB, Tuesday, December 06, 2011, 09:40 (4685 days ago) @ Hobie

The local deer are small. The boy who will be hunting with it is about 80 pounds soaking wet. The carbine is a light weapon, and so I'm keeping the bullets light to limit recoil. The light bullets require no elevation adjustment at any range at which my son is likely to take a shot at a deer. The ammo is available at Wal-Mart.

So yeah, there are good reasons to use the load we've settled on. I predict that proper placement of a 125-grain .35-caliber JHP with a velocity on arrival of, say, 1600 fps ought to produce a good result.

-AaronB

Multiple other issues are in play here.

by stonewalrus, Tuesday, December 06, 2011, 11:41 (4684 days ago) @ AaronB

My son took his first deer with an M1 carbine with Remington softpoints. Not your best deer cartridge but he weighed even less. Dropped a doe in her tracks at 35 yards. He has liked neck shots ever since.

Rossi .357 Carbine question

by Warhawk, Hot Springs, Arkansas, Monday, December 19, 2011, 22:38 (4671 days ago) @ AaronB

Like the others have said, the 125 JHP is a poor choice from a rifle barrel. The bullet will have explosive expansion. My 357 carbines, both Marlin and Browning, shoot the 158 grain American Eagle JSP better than any lighter bullet, recoil is almost non existent, and I expect the 158 soft point bullet to behave much better on game. I plan to have my grandson use this load in my Marlin when he's ready to start hunting.

Buffalo Bore has some good ballistic info on their ammo, comparing various length revolver barrels and the 18.5 inch Marlin barrel. The link below is for their 150 JHP load.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=102

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