Around the Water Cooler: Ken Hackathorn and the State

by Rob Leahy ⌂ @, Prescott, Arizona, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 17:18 (4431 days ago)

of the industry.

-- Currently there are negative perceptions that are being expressed on the 1911 style pistol. Your take?

"I have a hard time being objective about it," he said. "I grew up with it, invested a lot of effort in learning how to use it."

The basic service pistol, the 1911 pattern gun has gotten the job done for over a century. "I carried it daily." The question as to whether the gun will withstand a 2,000 round test or class without cleaning or lube is silly.

"My question is, "Will the gun go three magazines without choking?"" he said. "I only carry three magazines with the gun. As a practical matter, it's most important that the gun work through that load."
http://www.thetacticalwire.com/archived/2012-08-09_tactical.html
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The rest of the article is at the link. Very interesting to me as well. While attending the home of the 1911, Gunsite, nearly half the instructors were carrying guns other than 1911s. All the others were various forms of tactical Tupperware. G-19/23 was the most obvious second choice but FNC45s and others were present.
Will we be the last generation that appreciates the 1911 like we do?

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

getting rid of the 1911??

by Fivegunner @, LOWELL Mi., Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 17:48 (4431 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

NO WAY! not for this Person, The 1911 .45ACP was the best and still is the best . sure I got most of them other handguns, but they are just toys that I have fun playing with.:-D

What Ken postulates is that WE won't, but that are kids are

by Rob Leahy ⌂ @, Prescott, Arizona, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 18:50 (4431 days ago) @ Fivegunner

I see the same thing but on a smaller scope. Ken Hackathorn is traveling the US teaching classes and competing. He has since the Columbia conference in 1976...

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

i am no kid, but in 45s i have 2 glocks, a CZ, and HK, and..

by cable, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 18:57 (4431 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

i can shoot any one of them better than i can a 1911, and all of mine really will shoot at least a thousand times without a bobble......i have never had or handled a 1911 that could do that.
guess i am just a kid at heart then, but no more 1911s for me. :-P

At the rate we're going, it's all academic anyway...

by Boge Quinn, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 10:45 (4430 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

...the next generation won't have guns at all. Unless America turns around, that's where we are heading.

dang right! This November is CRITICAL!!

by cable, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 10:53 (4430 days ago) @ Boge Quinn

:-|

Yes, but the problem ISN'T Obama...

by Boge Quinn, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 11:09 (4430 days ago) @ cable

...it's that the Nation would elect a guy like that in the first place. As obscure as he's kept his past, there were still plenty of RED flags, but most folks just didn't, and don't, care.

We are trending towards self destruction. We can try to

by Hobie ⌂ @, Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 14:20 (4430 days ago) @ Boge Quinn

turn it around, but odds are...

--
Sincerely,

Hobie

When a significant portion of the population is on a

by stonewalrus, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 21:22 (4430 days ago) @ Hobie

Free ride and figures out they can continue to vote themselves a free ride, we are screwed.

that is sad but undoubtedly true!!

by cable, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 14:54 (4430 days ago) @ Boge Quinn

:-(

Too heavy, get a Commander or an E-Series...

by Rob Leahy ⌂ @, Prescott, Arizona, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 22:55 (4431 days ago) @ Fivegunner
edited by Rob Leahy, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 23:17

[image]reliable? All of these including the dirt cheap Kimber Custom that was built up as it could be afforded. Classy the custom National Match with ancient walrus jawbone, tough as nails the Wilson Combat tuned Springfield.reliable with HPs? the Series 70 was not at first but always fed Remington 185 JHPs and now feeds everything.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

I love the old gun...

by Sarge ⌂ @, Central Misery, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 19:37 (4431 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

...but so many sorry ones have been cranked out, that I only trust them after I've been through them. I can shoot about anything well enough to win a scrap. I do shoot a good 1911 a little better than any other serious service auto.

The 1911 design suffers from being too popular

by anachronism, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 20:10 (4431 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

When demand was high, but the 1911s only had a few manufacturers, quality was good. Then came IPSC, and everybody had to have a 1911, and a predictable thing happened. More companies started making them. Some of them shouldn't have tried it, because they gave the marque a bad reputation. It didn't matter, they were churning out 1911s at a frenetic pace. The more, the better. It didn't matter if they were crap, they were cheap, and they were available. Colt had a lengthy backorder on the desirable models. Then the higher line manufacturers were losing sales, so they relaxed quality on some models to increase manufacturing capacity, and lower manufacturing costs. Think of the poorly finished "1991A1" Colts for example. Everybody was sending them to gunsmiths for custom work anyway, let them sort it out. Them there was the ammunition revolution. New Super-Duper manstopper bullets were developed, often with bullet designs outside the 1911s design parameters. More work for the gunsmiths, and less effort for some manufacturers. And the 1911 became what Hackathorn called "King of the feedway stoppages". All true, and all of it because of the 1911s success. Still, I've had 9 different Glocks now, and 3 Springfield XDs. The plastic guns got no soul, no sign of life. I can't warm to their cold, unromantic design. I have several 1911s, and never hesitate to help when I see one that needs a good home.

At the risk of ticking someone off . . .

by RangerBob, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 21:53 (4431 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

. . . I've pretty much given up on the 1911.

I love them. I love the ergos and the triggers.

But I have found few 1911's (that I can afford) that are reliable with HP's.

They only hold a few rounds for a service size pistol . . . and I can see a need for a 15+ round gun.

They are heavy (not that I mind all of the time . . . makes it easier to shoot).

They are expensive if they are decent quality.

SA autos are not my idea of a CC weapon because I can see too many times where my wife or kids might need to use the gun . . . or I might need to put it under the car seat. I'm not comfortable with C-A-L outside of a good holster. (not that Glocks are the best here either)

I love 1911's (owned a 70 series Colt) and love to shoot them. But for me they have become toys. There are other guns I trust more.

I've been shooting 1911's for 50 years. I was never as good

by Cherokee @, Medina, Ohio, Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 21:54 (4431 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

as a lot of other people but I could shoot them well. In the last 10 years I've lost the touch. I tried the XDM 5.25 9mm last year and really shot it well. Then I got the XDM 5.25 45 ACP and wow, I can shoot accurately again. My 1911's will still make trips to the range but its not like it once was. Revolvers and single actions I can still shoot well, but 1911's, no. Things do change.

1911 and other .45s

by Jeff Taylor @, Tampa FL, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 05:24 (4430 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

I like 1911s but I'm down to one, an Ed Brown that is babied and only shot at paper. I find myself most comfortable carrying a Sig for the ergonomics and the safety of their DA/SA system. They all shoot well and offer the safest pistol without a safety in my mind. I have Glocks, a 21SF in fact that is a great pistol, and a 34 for IPSC, and a 26 to carry but I still am more comfortable with a Sig be it my 220, 239, 228, or 229. I find myself looking at the S&W MP .45 mid-size with thumb safety. I expect one of those is in my future sometime.

I loves my 1911's . . .

by Kentucky, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 09:32 (4430 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

. . . and my Hi-Power. I'll not be without them, and I enjoy shooting them whenever I can. I even loves me some steel revolvers, as well. Old-school cool, for sure.

But if I had to carry something on a daily basis for serious work, I fear it would be a black plastic thing from Gaston's factory.

There's toys and there's tools, and the classifications are morphing with the years.

JMHO, of course.

very well said.

by cable, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 10:54 (4430 days ago) @ Kentucky

:-)

A coupe of more thoughts...

by Sarge ⌂ @, Central Misery, Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 12:32 (4430 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

Weight/size issues aside-

I've had both a 1991A1 Commander and AMU-built 1945 Ithaca go well over 3000 rounds w/o a bobble. This included a lot of reloads, mostly SWC. The Ithaca carried me through a week of NRA range officer school in 100 degree heat, and digested 800 rounds of 200 grain LSWC reloads in the process. It was wiped off, given a little oil in the rails and really only cleaned once, about mid week. No bobbles of any kind.

My 2012 Rock Island had a short chamber but once THAT was corrected, it has never failed regardless of what it's fed. Let's see... that's a full box of MO Bullet 200 LSWC, about 100-150 of the 225 Flatheads, an easy 500-600 rounds of assorted ball and a couple hundred JHP's.

The design--when correctly executed--is as reliable as anything yet devised. Following the blueprint is critical, but improvements in barrel throats and magazines have made the gun even more reliable than it was. The gun does require good magazines and good ammunition, of proper OAL and firmly crimped.

I've taken a number of real problem children and corrected their ills, usually at very little expense. One 'eggspert' in particular postulates that it costs about a grand, in the ministrations and machinations of a wizard such as himself, to make a 1911 reliable. That is fertilizer. This isn't alchemy, despite what you might read on the Internet and elsewhere. Otherwise, I couldn't do it.

A coupe of more thoughts...

by Fivegunner @, LOWELL Mi., Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 15:28 (4430 days ago) @ Sarge

Well said Sarge! and God Bless John Browning.:-D :-D :-D

A coupe of more thoughts...

by Murphy @, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 06:48 (4429 days ago) @ Fivegunner

I'm with Sarge. Back in 85' I bought a Series 80 blued Colt Government. I sent it off to have a beavertail, extended thumb safety and match trigger installed. The fella did a nice job and tuned the extractor while it was there.

To the best of my recollection, I put close to 10,000 rounds of reloads using 200 Gr. SWC's with one failure to feed. The magazines I chose were Metalform.

Murphy

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