Western W49 Bowie and Bagwell mods

by Jhenry, Sunday, January 14, 2018, 16:43 (2442 days ago)

Some years back Bill Bagwell wrote an article detailing suggested modifications to make a Western W49 Bowie into what he considered a more usable configuration. Does anyone here have this in their hoard? A copy would be very appreciated.

It is out there on the web, as I have seen it.

by former hater of plastic, Sunday, January 14, 2018, 17:19 (2442 days ago) @ Jhenry

However, it is an extensive rework of the knife, basically a complete reshaping to meet Bill's idea of how a bowie should be shaped, and all on the premise the excellent steel already there is worth the effort, being defunkt Sharon Steel 0170-6 marketed as other names including Carbon V . By rework, and talking a regrind to drop the point in line with hand for a thrust for knife fighting. It was in SOF Magazine late 80s and I believe reprinted in his battle blades book. It was strictly to make it into a better fighter, not a better knife in general.

Frankly, I consider the flat to convex knife as supplied by Western to be about the most under-rated knife on the planet, as it sits. A shearing, chopping delight, and needs no improvement on a now collectible, never-again knife.

However, a synopsis listed from another board is as follows...

"That being the sharpening of the false edge of the swedge and lowering the tip somewhat, ala Bill Bagwell's suggestions which are roughly as follows: The Guard, Cut the ends of the guard off at the point where top and bottom bend to make the “S” curve. Finish the ends off by filing, sanding, polishing. The Blade, Starting about 3/8 of an inch forward of the guard, the blade should be narrowed in progressive taper until it’s 1 7/8 inches wide at the point where the clip starts across the widest part of the cutting edge. You can use a file or a grinder but be careful not to overheat the blade. The Point, The point is carried to high and needs to be dropped. Using a File or bench grinder lower the point ½ inch. Do not overheat the blade if you use a grinder. The unaltered blade measured ~9.5 inches from the front of the guard to the point. The modified version should be ~9 inches long. The clip, The original W49 clip point is not sharp so using a file rough the profile and finish with you favorite sharpener. The Handle, Use a file to thin and round the sides and ridges of the handle until they feel comfortable to you. Spend some time here there is plenty of material to work with. Do not remove the handle hook. He suggests performing the modifications in the above order."

I was just playing with my W49 today,

by former hater of plastic, Sunday, January 14, 2018, 17:46 (2442 days ago) @ former hater of plastic

and thought it funny you should post this. I would trust my W49 over most handmades by top names, Bagwell excepted. The Sharon steel was the original super-steel and used by most makers, and why those older knives work like the dickens. I cannot think, for sure, of any other knife, taken so thin, that would be trustworthy.

And you likely know all that, but,

by former hater of plastic, Sunday, January 14, 2018, 17:49 (2442 days ago) @ former hater of plastic

for anyone else who did not, there it is.

And you likely know all that, but,

by Jhenry, Sunday, January 14, 2018, 18:40 (2442 days ago) @ former hater of plastic

Thanks. I was not sure what all Bagwell did but on the W49 I am not really interested in reprofiling the blade. I have an earlier one on the way. I may or may not rework the guard but who k owes. I imagine I will must live with it for a time and see.

I have had several, early to late, but have only one, now,

by former hater of plastic, Sunday, January 14, 2018, 19:56 (2442 days ago) @ Jhenry

This one is an earlier/later one, just after the change to laminated rosewood rather than solid scales of same, when they still shaped the handle nicely. Still has the thin flatback drop loop sheath, and was just giving the leather some overdue TLC today.

Am going to have Harry Savage make me up a frog stud sheath for carry, Harry still pulls all his linen thread stitches by hand, heavy welts, heavy oil tanned leather of almost zero reaction to brass.

As for the guard, given how many times I have bruised or scraped knuckles when using a large knife for heavier chores, there are no plans except to work around a guard which actually protects the hand. There are many cheap sub-$50 modern copies to hack upon, to see what changes might be tried, before altering the original, is my first thought.

It is not the knife for prying open latched ammo cans, but is a fine fine knife for chopping/short machete, and using as an actual knife, a feat most later large knives cannot do. I would be afraid of doing anything to reduce mass which powers the thin convex edged blade.

Word of caution.....

by Gunner @, St Louis, Sunday, January 14, 2018, 21:36 (2442 days ago) @ Jhenry

Be very careful if and when you start re-profiling your knife, too much heat generated while grinding/filing etc will cause the blade to loose it's temper, quickly. Believe me steel heats way faster than you think, I can show you the burn marks on my fingers : ( Older steels, generally, took lower heat temps to harden, so it will not take a high temp to ruin the blade.

Now having said that here is how to attack the job.......keep a coffee can or similar sized container of water next to you and dip the blade into it to keep the temp down on the blade. Using a file, it would take more than a few strokes to get it hot but with a power tool like a angle or 1x30 belt grinder will only take a few seconds to get the blade too hot. Use a sharp file, belt or disc with light pressure and dip the blade a lot into the water. The molecules in the steel can start to change at temps as low 400-450 degrees, you want them to keep still, cool, not warming up to cause them to move around and get excited which will lead to the temper being ruined.

I am far from being a expert but know enough to get myself into trouble :-D If you have any questions just ask and I will help if I can.


Gunner

--
https://www.instagram.com/41gunner/
41 Mags rule, Baers rock!

I should think that were he to change his mind,

by former hater of plastic, Monday, January 15, 2018, 09:05 (2441 days ago) @ Gunner

and go for converting the W49 into a dropped point fighter, he should simply pack it off to you. That would be the smart thing. Most Bagwellize W49s I have seen were more Butcherize, and it really needs somebody with proper equipment and knowledge.

I should think that were he to change his mind,

by Jhenry, Monday, January 15, 2018, 18:34 (2441 days ago) @ former hater of plastic

I may mess with the handle profile, but nothing is getting done or nit done until I use it a bit.

The above quoted mod synopsis said "just go for it",

by former hater of plastic, Monday, January 15, 2018, 22:32 (2441 days ago) @ Jhenry

as far as whittling on handle. Take care on going after the brass rivet heads, without spares on-hand. Although personally it is suspected they are two-piece, and of limited ability to re-set the shop heads, it might be they are solid and can be easily re-expanded, but, a proper job would have a new chamfer/countersink cut in scales for radical slimming.

However, probably a moot point, and the handle will likely work fine as-is, if an older one, as some bashing should show.

Be sure to follow up post, when you lay hands on it. It makes most new large knives feel like crowbars that they are, while the W49 is actual Son Of Collins #18 Machete, or, Son Of Carlson's Raiders, as in KNIFE, IMPROVED, BAIL-OUT, MACHETE.

And why an obvious bowie called a machete? The US Army went a country mile to avoid naming ANYthing a bowie, no matter the shape being obviously some manner of bowie inspired blade, including Krag bayonets, while Collins would have run afoul of the numerous legal impediments to owning anything called a bowie in the bottom half of the US, not to mention the US Congress outlawed "bowie knives" before the War Of Northern Aggression, a law which was on the books, I believe, until the 1950s, and Thorpe's book and Iron Mistress movie popularity.

But whatever you call it, do NOT call it a V44, which was also a wartime bail-out knife, by Case, and of a more bolo machete shape. An improved "Gung Ho", fine, "Carlson's Raider", even, but not an improved V44.

Must be out of print: I can burn a copy for you.

by Rob Leahy ⌂ @, Prescott, Arizona, Tuesday, January 16, 2018, 13:16 (2440 days ago) @ Jhenry

Legendary Peder Lund and Paladin Press just died.

by former hater of plastic, Wednesday, January 17, 2018, 20:09 (2439 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

Including the Bagwell book which now starts at $100 and up. If their facebook page is still active, they were selling off everything. Hard to believe no more centralized printer of everything they offered, good and bad.

Must be out of print: I can burn a copy for you.

by Jhenry, Thursday, January 18, 2018, 19:04 (2438 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

Oh please do burn a copy for me. Much appreciated.

As plan B to his generosity,

by former hater of plastic, Thursday, January 18, 2018, 22:48 (2438 days ago) @ Jhenry

I shall be soon retrieving my own copy of the book, and could photograph and email desired pages. Not having it immediately on-hand, and limited to only photos was why no offer made in first place. Primitive in a techy way, but, better than nothing, if all else fails.

As plan B to his generosity,

by Jhenry, Saturday, January 20, 2018, 09:22 (2436 days ago) @ former hater of plastic

Very kind of you sir.

pffft...how hard can it be to snap a few cell phone pics,

by former hater of plastic, Sunday, January 21, 2018, 00:18 (2436 days ago) @ Jhenry

and then attach them to an email from same phone? Hardest part will be propping book open without busting the spine on a now collectible out of print book.

pffft...how hard can it be to snap a few cell phone pics,

by Jhenry, Sunday, January 21, 2018, 09:09 (2435 days ago) @ former hater of plastic

As much as I appreciate this, don't damage the book.

lot less chance with photos, rather than

by former hater of plastic, Sunday, January 21, 2018, 13:52 (2435 days ago) @ Jhenry

trying to slap on a scanner for sure. Learned the hard way on some hard to replace books when doing favors.

RSS Feed of thread

powered by my little forum