USFA Issue
by Hoot 
, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Friday, July 22, 2016, 14:09 (2984 days ago)
edited by Hoot, Friday, July 22, 2016, 15:22
We had my USFA Rodeo out this week. It's a .38 Special with the 4-3/4" barrel. On the third or fourth shot (of 5 loaded, of course), the hammer would be difficult to cock. After a bit of head-scratching, I saw that the primers were cratered and the difficulty was due to shearing off the raised bit. The load was 158gr generic cast SWC's over 5gr. Unique with Federal 100 primers. This load is either standard pressure or +P depending on which manual is consulted. That was the last of my Federal primers so, if it is a 'soft' primer issue, I'll be changing brands anyway.
I would hope that being relatively new, the USFA would not be needing any sort of remedial work such as bushing the firing pin but I suppose that is a possibility.
Any thought or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Edited to add: I have shot this several times before with probably whatever .38's were on hand. This is the first time any trouble has appeared.
Mike, I would try some new primers
by Fivegunner , LOWELL Mi., Friday, July 22, 2016, 15:44 (2984 days ago) @ Hoot
I just can`t see that load your using, as being to much for the gun your using.
USFA Issue
I use 5.0 gr Unique under 158 gr SWC's as my standard 38 load for years with never an issue in any gun I've fired them in. Were the bullets seated too deeply? Is the firing pin hole in the frame overly large? Is the firing pin on the small side? Have you experienced any other difficulties with these primers previously? Pretty sure you already asked yourself these questions, but it is the best I could come up with off-hand this evening.
Dittos... Wish I could try those loads in another gun or
by Hobie 
, Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, Friday, July 22, 2016, 22:05 (2984 days ago) @ Brian A
at least look at them.
--
Sincerely,
Hobie
Thanks guys.
by Hoot , Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Saturday, July 23, 2016, 08:14 (2984 days ago) @ Hobie
5.0 Unique has been my standard .38 load for a while. I've shot this particular batch out of a couple guns without anything untoward happening. We're headed out shortly but I'll try and get some pictures up in a couple of days.
As for the USFA, I'll try some other primers. The firing pin and respective hole look like a good fit but it was just a quick peek while at the range. I'll take another gander with better lighting.
It looks like we'll just have to take along some more guns this weekend. Darn.
Primers and stuff.
I had a soft lot of Winchester Small pistol primers a while back. They would pierce with almost any load. In the.32 mag they were really bad, but I even had the problem with 2.7gr of Red Dot and a WC in .38 special.
I know Colt changed to a smaller diameter firing pin when they started chambering the SAA in .357 Because of the exact same problem you mention. IIRC most USFA revolvers have the old style larger firing pin. So even with your normal loads you may be getting enough flow back with the larger firing pin if the primers are a little soft.
Do you have any CCI small pistol? I would try them and I bet your problems will be long gone.
I used to overload and Uberti
by Bob Hatfield , Sunday, July 24, 2016, 11:46 (2982 days ago) @ Jared
I was using my 45 Colt 8.2 grain load of 231 over a swaged lead .454 255 grain RNFP dry lubed bullet I bought a bunch of back in the day made by 3-D ($19.98 per 500 those days are long gone)
Anyway the Uberti shot so well that ringing the 6 inch diameter 75 yard gong offhand would impress even Elmer. Then the revolver would start locking up. Had to help get the cylinder started turning with my left hand sort of like a gobbed off percussion revolver. The firing pin bushing was being battered so bad the primer started flowing into the little divot that was forming in the bushing. Had to tig weld up and grind down the bushing. (tig doesn't file too easy) and drill a new firing pin hole. Went back to 7.1 grains of 231 LOL.
Bob
Comparison of hammers
The USFA is the cone shape hammer on top, and the Colt is the smaller bottlenecked one. Colt is a 3rd Gen. ![[image]](images/uploaded/2016072502322657957a3a0731a.jpg)
Update.
by Hoot , Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Monday, July 25, 2016, 15:31 (2981 days ago) @ Hoot
Had 3 different loads on hand and tried them all out this weekend. The original load described above (5.0 Unique, 158SWC, Fed 100), 4.8gr Unique under 160gr SWC w/Federal 100's and 3.2gr Bullseye under 158gr SWC w/CCI 500's (loaded lite for pistol league use). We shot them out of the USFA, a ca. 1933 S&W M&P (M-1906?) (yep, not rated for +P and I don't normally use them) and a Taurus M-85.
The USFA cratered the Federal primers on both loads but not on the CCI's. The S&W (chosen due to the hammer mounted firing pin) one could just see kind of an 'eyebrow' over the primer indent on the Federals and none on the CCI's but did not exhibit any sort of hang-up during cocking. The Taurus (frame mounted FP) had no issues with any of the above.
I pulled the cylinder on the USFA and looked under full daylight and there is a bit of a gap between the FP and the bushing. It isn't symmetrical though and appears to be from say, 7-o'clock to 9-o'clock. The remainder of the circumference looks pretty snug. The FP looks exactly like the conical one shown in Jared's post.
Firing pin indents from the USFA also seem to be very significant no matter which primers are examined. They are being dealt a might whack all right.
Short term, I'll avoid Federal primers. Mid-term, try and get a measurement on FP protrusion and see if there's any trouble there. Longer term, keep an eye on the bushing to see if anything changes.
Thanks for all the good thoughts!
Update.
by Bob Hatfield , Tuesday, July 26, 2016, 18:30 (2980 days ago) @ Hoot
I have a H&R 732 in 32 S&W long. If I use CCI small pistol primers I have regular misfires with a shallow dent. The revolver shoots fine with Federal small pistol primers which told me they had a softer cup.
Bob
That jives with what I have heard and experienced.
by Hoot , Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Wednesday, July 27, 2016, 12:34 (2979 days ago) @ Bob Hatfield
I have a pair of the Ruger Single Sixes released for the Cowboys in .32 H&R, Vaquero style, high polish stainless, short grip frames. One was fitted with a rimfire firing pin, square face rather than rounded. It will puncture Federal primers and tie up the pistol. With CCI's it runs just fine.
I talked to Ruger about it but they wouldn't do anything without me sending in the gun on my dime. I kept asking for a shipper but they wouldn't budge. So I just avoid Federal primers in those.