Experimenting with old sixguns.....

A while back, I traded for a S&W Model 1917 that he had that was done up by Hamilton Bowen. Bowen took a 4" .38/44 Heavy Duty barrel and re-bored it to .452" with a 1 in 16" twist, mounted it on the M1917 frame, and then put a half-moon front sight blade on the barrel that was regulated for hard-ball, then re-marked the barrel and re-finished/re-blued the whole gun. This is one very sweet little N-frame!

The only problem is, it has the original M1917 cylinder on it. Chambers are OK, but the throats run .455"-.456" (and on the M1917 the throats are l-o-o-o-n-g, so an undersized bullet has plenty of time to rattle around before it finds the stability of the lands/grooves). 200s shoot a couple inches low, and accuracy is so-so (bullets were "sized" .454", but they are not really that big, so this is a something of a fantasy). It is logical to expect heavier bullets to shoot higher, so I have some 220 grain TC-HPs loaded up, as well as some 454424 (Keith SWC). For the Keith SWC, I used the published load data for the 260 grain JHP (Hogdgon and Speer, 5.8 or 6.4 grains of Unique max) and used that as a guideline for the 247 grain cast bullet and went with 5.5 grains of Unique. I'm expecting something like 750-800 fps. And this bullet is truly sized .454" (and drops from the blocks fat enough that it can be sized larger, if need be). Let me tell you guys, the Keith SWC looks extremely business-like when loaded into the .45 ACP case....

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Before I discovered it kicked too hard for me to enjoy plinking with it using 230 FMJ factory ammo and then passed it off on to you (LOL), I was toying with the idea of buying another cylinder for that 'M1917/50' by BCA.

Since I didn't know or really care about the throat dimensions, my interest was primarily spurred by the fact that at least one of the chambers showed some pitting. Even though 'hidden', this was largely a cosmetic issue with me, and I did look around for a replacement.

In the interest of posting a perhaps more informative reply, I just repeated the search on GunBroker and found a couple of possible options in the form of NOS Model 25-2 cylinders, the first of which has been there for some time now:

1) Smith & Wesson Model 25-2 .45 ACP Cylinder 45ACP

2) Smith & Wesson Model 25-2 .45 ACP Cylinder 45 ACP (nearly the same title, different location/seller)

A few caveats:
• I'm not sure a M25-2 cylinder would fit or could be fitted (which is one reason I never bought #1 above)
• You would still have to use the original prewar extractor ('ratchet'), of course
• The throats might still be oversized, perhaps even more so

Still, it might be worth inquiring about the throat dimensions (or simply giving one of these cylinders a 'shot' − LOL).

After all, it's only money. :-D

HTH :-)

PS: Based on my admittedly limited experience, I would still advise seating whatever bullet you're shooting so that at least a portion of the frontmost 'driving band' extends into the cylinder throats. I'd bet dollars-to-donuts my M25-2 had oversize throats, and doing so greatly improved its accuracy with Grier hard-cast bullets (which were probably .452", but I don't really recall).

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...so that it enters the throats. Exhibit A....

[image]

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In particular, no apparent 'waist' at the base of the bullet. Looks like about the right seating depth, too.

I suppose if I had one 'worry', it would be the bullet weight (bearing length). I know Elmer Keith got away with it, but I have to wonder if the 1917 twist will stabilze that bullet unless it's loaded up there a ways.

I suppose you'll find out soon enough.

Good Luck! :-)

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...and he told me that they used a 1-in-16" twist when they rebored this barrel. That will stabilize the Keith SWC just peachy.

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Again, here's hoping it works!

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I tried .45 Auto Rim brass in my M25-2, but the inside 'edge' of the extractor star dinged every rim with each firing, and the each dingus was big enough to preclude entry of the case into a case holder for reloading. After two or three firings, it was typically Game Over, which kind of defeated the entire purpose, as I really had my heart set on using Auto Rim brass in that gun.

In any case (no pun intended − LOL), I mainly used regular .45 ACP brass in my M25-2, and usually without clips. I had a tool for 'de-mooning' the clips, but I also found loading them too difficult to bother with, especially just for plinking.

The other thing about the clips in more 'practical' scenarios (e.g., ground squirrel hunting) is that you cannot very easily partially recharge the cylinder: It's literally all or nothing. That might be OK, perhaps even preferable, in most 'combat' scenarios, but I had only other uses for the M25-2.

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...45 ACP and beyond (LOL)

I think if I was looking for the utmost in accuracy practicably obtainable from a revolver with oversize cylinder throats, I would also consider how the cases are fitting in the cylinder chambers.

If the fit was 'sloppy', I might try only 'neck-sizing' my brass (in the fashion of the old Lyman 'Tong Tool'), or perhaps simply using a larger expander plug (maybe not so simple; I suppose it depends).

Since neck-sizing results in 'fire-formed' cases/cartridges, it might be too hard to push six in at once and thereby obviate the practical (fast) use of moon clips, but you might get around this by 'pre-seating' the cartridges in the cylinder one-at-a-time.

This worked for me around 1979 when I loaded some swaged 148-gr HBWCs upside-down in .38 Special cases using a Lyman. As you might guess, I seated the bullets so the first (last?) driving band extended into the cylinder throats of my first Combat Masterpiece (#K10689x). This combination of neck-sizing, plus seating the flange of the bullet in the cylinder throats resulted in cartridges that fit the chambers tightly enough they had to be pressed home upon loading them in the revolver. However, after this was done once or twice, it required much less effort, so moon clips might still work with similar pre-seating.

That's just the .45 ACP.

I think the neck-sizing option might also be worth trying in analagous cases.

No pun intended, of course. :-D

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I ordered a Lee mold for the Ruger Old Army which cast a .457 200 gr CB. I also ordered a Lee .457 push through sizer. This allowed me to shoot my ole Webley 455's and a 2nd Model Smith in 455S&W. Amazed me how well these ole revolvers shoot with this combination.

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What did you use for a ramrod on the ol' Smith & Webley anyhow?