Thoughts and questions on precision reloading

by Byron, Friday, November 16, 2012, 06:52 (4372 days ago)

Started reloading on a Lee Loader for a .243 45 years ago...loved seating the primers with a hammer...

Graduated to a Herters cast iron job about the time I got into highschool and then to a RCBS Rockchucker...

Now all loading done on a pair of 550s...one small primer the other large...

For me reloading is like washing dishes...no real big deal but just another chore...have other things I would perfer to spend my time on...

Pistol ammmo is loaded in bulk and fired after visual inspection....

5.56 and 7.62 is loaded in 100 round batches...weighed and the 10 heaviest and 10 lightest are set asside....this gives me ammunition that is consistent MOA and shoots about as good as I and my hardware can.

Question...

If Lee's fancy .300 Mag rifle with throw 3 into 1/2" at 500 yards with his ammo...how would it shoot with ammo loaded like mine...full length sized, thrown charge, Dillon seated primers, bulk loaded...etc

Byron

Thoughts and questions on precision reloading

by Charles, Friday, November 16, 2012, 07:02 (4372 days ago) @ Byron

You have told us how you load, but you have not told us how that ammo performs in your rifle. Your targets will answer your question.

Lee is in the precision rifle building business, so his rifles are not the average. His ammo is also put together with great care so it is not the average ammo either.

Therefore I would say your groups would be somewhat larger, but there are so many factors I would not risk saying anything more.

The range where I worked had a giant Benchrest league.

by cas, Friday, November 16, 2012, 07:40 (4372 days ago) @ Charles

Many of them would load their ammo right at the bench (not IN the matches though) Those guys didn't weigh their charges, they threw them all with powder measures. Of course they were higher end, presumably more accurate/consistent models.


When I dabbled with that stuff, in terms of shooting pure groups, my biggest improvements came (loading wise) from group matching my bullets. Weighing them all out and grouping them is as small a variation as I could.

I used to have a big line drawn on my bench like a large ruler that I used for this…. 150.0 grains would go in the center say. 150.3 grains would go on this line…. 159.7 on that line… 149.6 over there...

I weigh sort my BPCR cast bullets like that - it does make a

by John K., Friday, November 16, 2012, 10:31 (4372 days ago) @ cas

huge difference. Another thing it tells you is whether your casting technique is consistant or not, as you are basically sorting and developing a Bell curve.

Like this:

[image]

Ignoring the standard deviation stuff, the sharper/narrower the peak, the better off you are. My first few attempts showed two peaks in the curve; turns out adding sprues back to the pot in large quantity affected the melt temp enough to cause a separate group of weights. I used this to hone my casting technique to minimize culls and eventually got to where I could cast 535gr Postel bullets with an expected variation of plus or minus 1gr. After that, sorting didn't seem to help much. Again, a case of diminishing returns for the effort.

Thoughts and questions on precision reloading

by lee jurras @, Hagerman,NM, Friday, November 16, 2012, 13:37 (4372 days ago) @ Charles

I'm with Chas on that one. In general terms on a good day about MOA at best, but too many other variables. but this is about what I find with a good factory gun and new factory Match ammo. From one of the major or good custom loaders.
To 90% of shooters MOA is quite satisfactory. Certainly satisfactory for most BG at normal ranges. To me personally its unsatisfactory. But there are days with the best gun and known precision ammo I can't do 1/4 MOA. FWIW:-)

Thoughts and questions on precision reloading

by MDF99 @, SW Ohio, Friday, November 16, 2012, 09:06 (4372 days ago) @ Byron

I load most of my ammo like you do, Dillon 550, full length resize, thrown charges, primers seated by the press. I have a heavy barrel Savage 308 that I've tried to work up super accurate loads for. I've gotten to where my groups are hovering in the 1" range at 100 yds. shooting off a bipod, which is not that great but not that bad either. I think the ammo will do better and what's holding me back is consistent shooting technique.

So, I'm making a real effort on educating myself on how to correctly hold and support the rifle, and plan to concentrate less on ammo and spend more time on the range, keep myself square and straight behind the rifle, trigger pull straight back, consistent hold, breathing, etc., just really pay attention to everything I'm doing behind the rifle. I'd love to go somewhere for a week of precision rifle training next year if I can manage it.

I'd imagine your ammo would perform very well in the custom rifle, and the shooter behind the rifle is equally important.

Nowadays, with better components, there is something wrong

by John K., Friday, November 16, 2012, 10:21 (4372 days ago) @ Byron

either with the rifle, optics, or shooter if ammunition produced on a 550 with a modicum of care won't shoot somewhere about 1" @ 100yds. Not necessarily MOA at longer ranges, tho. That's where shooting technique, lock time, expensive optics, and fancy tricks make a huge difference.

In a basically stock rifle, all the other feel-good stuff generally doesn't pay off at reasonable ranges.

Here's a pic of what a 1909 Argentine Mauser with Shilen barrel will do with 550 reloads - repeatedly.

[image]

I do process the primer pockets with one of those Sinclair carbide cutting tools that references off the base of the case before I reload the cases. It does give a consistant and repeatable depth to the pocket.

I've noticed the same thing

by bj @, Friday, November 16, 2012, 20:18 (4372 days ago) @ John K.

I've seen ammo loaded on a 550 with mixed brass and no other brass cleaning or prep shoot 1" or better at 100 yards in reduced distance service rifle matches. And that means fired from a service rifle configuration AR15, open sights, laying on the ground with only a shooting sling for support.

Thoughts and questions on precision reloading

by lee jurras @, Hagerman,NM, Sunday, November 18, 2012, 08:07 (4370 days ago) @ Byron

Byron, To me ammo is the secondary component. Start with a perfect bbl. A blue-printed or Custom action. A pillar and steel bedded stock, or one with an aluminum V bedding block. A Niteforce Scope, Jewel and or Basix trigger. Then you can see the results of your handloads. This is not to say you cannot making good ammo on a 550 but not BR quality. At least to my way of thinking.
I see all kinds of Ads on so called precision Varmint rifles on the AR platform, but never saw one shoot to my Varmint standards. But that also doesn't say they can't make a good Varmint rifle.Its all in the eyes of the beholder. I have had good luck with Leupold scopes too. They are just not Nightforce standards. FWIW dept. :-)

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